Zeitgeist : The Movie

[adissageek.]

Has anyone watched this? What points would you use to defend the bible in this movie? What would you say to someone who's watched this and beleived this?

http://www.zeitgeistmovie.com/

[Brett Heino]

I haven't watched it, but I read the wikipedia article on it-I know wikipedia can be inaccurate, but I am basing my analysis on this anyway.

In terms of the issues relating to its theories of conspiracy by the US Government and US Federal Reserve Bank, I don't know if it is true, but I wouldn't be surprised if it were. Unfortunately, history has shown governments are capable of the most horrendous acts to achieve their own agendas. For example, a commission in the 1920's in the US basically concluded that the US entered the First World War because powerful business interests pushed goverment, as war generates profit for armament companies.

It is also hard to defend the Bible on the basis of what the movie presents. It is simply a fact that Christianity has incorporated aspects of many other religions that have preceeded it-for example, the idea of 'one God' was not developed by Christianity, but actually thousands of year previous in the reign of the Egyptian pharaoh Akhenaten. That is the nature of hitsory-very few theories or ideas are totally innovative, they ususlly borrow aspects of similar things that have preceeded them.

Unfortunately also, organised religion has been responsible for so much war and bloodshed over the years.

In defending the Bible, you would probably have to say that just because their are bad individuals and goups within Christianity, it does not hold that the system of beliefs is also bad. In cases like this, you have to look past the people to see the basic ideals of Christianity, which are basically good.

[Relly]

I've seen the movie a few months ago, and it did make some what seemed to be logical points about the whole astrology thing and how it had some type of connection to the sun. But what infuriated me was when he started comparing Jesus' life on earth to that of other so called "messiahs" and how all of them including Jesus was born on the same day, had disciples, and died on a cross and rose again three years later and then tried to use scientific information to back it up. The only reason I even decided to watch Zeigeist: The Movie was because I watched the guy's other movie/ documentary, ZEITGEIST: ADDENDUM and in that one, he just talked about America's economy, what the government doesn't want you to know. And He did make, again, some good logical points.

The thing you have to realize about this guy is that he's an atheist, and has a good reason for being one. Religion has brought upon many of he world's problems, simply because all of them are divided and make it it seem like they are the true religion and we can find many examples of the in the Christian faith when you look at it's different branches. Those who have a strong a hold on their faith persecute those who hold another faith way more than they do the atheists. And also, when you look at history, many rulers, dictators, and others in pursuit of power have committed heinous crimes in the name of "god" or religion. Atheists can see that, but we can't. The only thing I can say about this movie is that if a person reads their bible and has a personal relationship with God, then they could automatically recognize what that guy and many others are saying about our Father in heaven is completely false. And we can only pray for those who have stumbled and believed the words of man. We are living in the end time, things like this should not be a shock to God's children.

[adissageek.]

AMEN. AMEN. AMEN. Thank you. tahnk. we are in the end times. this shouldn't be a surprise. I mean when i saw that the movie had more than 5 million views, on one website alone. i was amazed. the devil is just working in this world. and he's just moving thru.

i feel so handicapped. like the devil can reach the world thru a video and i can't reach the people in my class with a word. *rolls eyes*

[Brett Heino]

I think it is unfair to imply that just because someone has a different opinion to you, that must mean it is the work of the devil. The director is entitled to his own point of view and opinion, just as anyone else is. If that opinion is enough to sway the views of other people, then clearly Christians have to try harder to sell their message.

[Adrian]

if it's causing people to disregard the Bible, I'd say Satan likes it very much

[Relly]

I completely agree with that. The devil tries to make things seem simple so that u won't question whether or not they are of God or of him. But what everyone must keep in mind is that if it's not from Him, about Him, or has to do with Him, then it's not Him. and if it's not Him, then it's the devil's. Society has entitled us to our opinions, yes that true, but when our opinions contradict with the words of God AND we are sharing that opinion in a convincing manner with millions of people (even if it was with one person), we're steering them wrong, and we're going to have to to face God, and pay some dire consequences for that. The guy who created Zeitgeist might be an exception because he doesn't seem to know the truth at all. Only God knows his heart and his true intentions.

[Adrian]

things that challenge faith can actually strengthen it if we use the opportunity to search deeper. I've never seen the movie (I will) but have a friend who talked about how it weakened his faith in Jesus and the Gospel. If it's true that there have been other "messiahs" surrounded by similar events as Jesus', I wonder why this movie is the only thing that points it out. There are lots of people and organizations out there who try to discredit the Bible as much as they can and I haven't heard this argument presented much elsewhere, thus I question if it's really that strong of a case. Jesus' first coming was predicted to the very year in Daniel 9 and something like 100 other prophecies were fulfilled. Of course, there's also the historical and archeologica evidence for the authenticity of the Gospel (see The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel and More Than A Carpenter by Josh McDowell). I'd like to see the "scientific information" used to support these other "messiahs". One more thing to consider is that Satan knows the Bible and its prophecies very, very well, so He understood the prophecies pointing forward to Jesus and probably motivated these false messiahs in hopes of making future generations disbelieve the true Messiah in the very way this movie does. "The archenemy of God is, alas, a keener student of divine prophecy than are most men—even many within the church. He knows and fears God's power from of old. His is the fury of desperation. He uses this evil knowledge and long experience in an attempt to thwart the acceptance of God's provisions, so far as lies within his power. This is attempted with the spirit of prophecy, for example, by anticipating its appearance according to promise, and producing preliminary counterfeits to deceive, if possible, the expectant ones. By extreme fanaticism and false manifestations, he seeks to disgust men generally, and thus to frustrate the purpose of the gift. In this way he causes disrepute to be cast upon all manifestations of the gift [of prophecy], true or false, and renders it difficult to credit the true when its appearance is made. It is his age-old scheme of opposition" (The Abiding GIft of Prophecy by Arthur Daniels, Ch.23 "The Awakening Advent Hope", 245-246).

[Tamara]

I watched that video about a year ago. It looks like they made a newer version since. I really don't want to waste another few hours on that; My comments are based on the original version.

I wasn't impressed with their methods of presenting their ideas.

I tried watching that video and was completely turned off by the tone of it. I hung on watching for about 50 minutes, but meh... I still didn't buy their arguments.

I like facts and information, not emotion-driven video, atmospheric music, and unsupported leaps of logic.

We can't assume mythologies share a common source based on silly things like having female names starting with the letter M somewhere in their mythology. It just wasn't worth bringing up in the video. But it was brought up anyway.

They also did a bit of wordplay on "son" and "sun" in what seemed (to me) to be an attempt to keep the viewer engaged in making tenuous connections. Just 'cause it sounds the same in English doesn't mean it is the same thing. I'd love to see the people try to translate that nonsense into French, Japanese, or Sanskrit. They couldn't. Maybe the film suffered more for lack of a decent editor than a purposefully attempt to make the smallest, more inconsequential things sounds amazing... But this sensationalized commentary runs throughout the video.

Another topic they briefly mentioned in their montage of weakly associated trivia was similarity in religious symbols in history. They focused on the cross a bit. However, it's possible to have similar symbols for VERY different reasons and histories. There are only so many ways to arrange straight lines and circles into simple patterns. Sometimes those patterns are used to represent ideas. Sometimes circles are used to represent ideas too, such as eternity, unity, earth, etc. I think a cross is almost as universal as the circle because of its structural simplicity. Crosses, whether used in phonetic writing or as hieroglyphs, have been used in many many cultures. They show up in architecture as well. That doesn't mean Christianity stole the imagery; Far from it. I think it's easy to document the prevalence of the symbol of the cross for Christians because it doesn't rely merely on an abstract idea-- it's rooted in a very real, literal event.

Even where there are similarities, it's important to remember that we're all human as well-- we share similar creative processes. With a few billion of us trying to understand this life, of course sometimes ideas will be duplicated. It's the way of getting to the idea that matters most.

And let's face it... when it's a symbol like the Sun (another symbol the video focused on to try to show that all cultures stole from each other), you're gonna have people alluding to it just because it *is* so ripe for symbolism. Plus the very literal impact it has on life and death for people can't be ignored. Ancient agricultural societies were aware of the seasons and natural forces because they had impact on their lives. They may have worshiped and feared those natural forces, but other societies, including our own, still acknowledge the Sun, the stars, wind, fire, storms, and night in our language today too. Did we steal their symbols? Or are some symbols universal? I think that the Zeitgeist movie failed to differentiate between those possibilities.

The video also played around with Bible verses to make them sound related to the Zodiac and Astrology. They took a few isolated verses that merely mentioned fish and tried to make it sound like it was related to Pisces.

Then they rambled about the age of Aquarius following Jesus because Jesus hung out with fishermen and Aquarius and Pisces are related in astrology 'cause they both deal with water and one follows the other. Maybe someone else can make more sense of that than me but it sounds like a bunch of nonsense. What the video did, though, is ignore that Jesus' other followers were tax collectors, physicians, women, etc. That's what I mean about taking random facts and blowing them out of proportion; It made a connection where none really exists by leaving out data that could influence the viewer's perceptions.

They make references to *just enough* myth and history to make them try to appear like they know what they're talking about. Many people dont' know much about other world religions so there's a lot of new information in this video. That makes it seem like the video is a kind of teacher, explaining new things. Instant feeling of credibility.

But they don't really prove any connections. They make vague references that are meant to sound clever, then they rush on to make more commentary, still running with the idea that similar outward appearance = the same.

" If we try to overwhelm the viewer with information, maybe they won't take a look at it in-depth!" is what *I* got from the video.

Quantity over quality. And really, where would you start if you want to refute it all? You'd need to take a few world religions courses, talk in-depth with people of other beliefs probably over a period of years, read up on history in a lot of different eras and locales... It's a lot of work. It's so much easier to just take someone else's word for it and be done. We want answers to our questions *now.*

Most of their facts are true, or at least possible, as far as I know. It's the way that they present them and their conclusions that prove problematic for me.

When the video finally got around to the idea of how the government's evil and 9/11 was a conspiracy (Part II of the movie), they'd already destroyed any credibility they may have had (to me).

Not that I trust the government as it is either-- But I wouldn't rely on this video for an accurate description of historical events.

Did Zeitgeist present interesting ideas? Yeah, it did. And many of those ideas are worth a second look because they present opportunity to understand history better. But when the video is relying on caricatures of history and mythological characters, I'm wary of any of their claims.

The video is deceptive because it plays upon the human mind's natural tendency to make connections between objects-- even if those objects are not really related causally at all. This is exploited even more in Part II.

I'd say that anyone who took the entire video as true needs to read critical reviews for some balance. It's not safe to rely on one video, or person, for any opinion. Stand back, realize this video is one man's presentation of the world, and take your time before changing your opinions on anything.

This whole post is really only my opinion. I have my own biases. Don't take anything I say as truth either. :)

[Adrian]

I've recently come across a channel (account) on YouTube that has a lot of great resources about refuting Zeitgeist: The Movie. The the channel is called ZeitgeistDebunked (http://www.youtube.com/user/ZeitgeistDebunked) and the best videos he has that I've seen so far are called "Zeitgeist's Claims Debunked" and there are two parts to it (this is the first part http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QAhrC3nG5E). Basically it comes down to Zeitgeist making a lot of false claims about similarities between Christianity and other earlier religions or about which religion's ideas came first